Charging into the Energy Transition: An Interview with Canadian Battery Technology Company Electrovaya
One uncertainty about how the energy transition will play out is how prevalent battery technology will be in the future.
Today’s lithium-ion batteries work well for short duration utility storage and electric cars, but they are not commercial for some other applications – such as long duration energy storage or heavy hauling. Also, material supply constraints are increasing the cost of batteries and becoming a limit to growth.
To understand the current and future state of battery technology, we welcome Dr. Rajshekar DasGupta, Chief Executive Officer of Electrovaya to our podcast.
Electrovaya is a Canadian developer and manufacturer of lithium-ion batteries that is based in Mississauga, Ontario. They are also developing proprietary solid state battery technology.
Any conversation about renewable energy always seems to come to one point. Sometimes it’s early in the conversation, sometimes it’s the closing acknowledgment. It happens in corporate boardrooms, coffee shops, kitchen tables at the family farm.
Storage. If battery technology were significantly better, it would be like someone invented perpetual motion. Solar and wind farms would be considered baseload. Electric vehicles would become the norm, not the exception.
In this episode Jackie and Peter talk with Dr Rajshekar DasGupta, the CEO at Electrovaya, a Canadian battery company based in Ontario. Electrovaya has been in the lithium-ion battery space since early 2000.
“The industry itself is, as you can imagine, growing exponentially and is currently heavily dominated by large Asian-based conglomerates,” says Dr DasGupta. “And as a result, to be relevant you have to be innovative. And that’s been Electrovaya’s strategy all along. We’ve continuously remained at the cutting edge with respect to technology and that’s how we’ve survived.”
One of the ongoing concerns with lithium-ion technology is the materials – nickel, manganese, cobalt (NMC) – all going in price.
“Commodity prices have increased substantially, especially in the last let’s say 12 months, as have many other commodities.” But price is only one factor in any purchase. Electrovaya focuses on mainly NMC-based chemistries so it’s batteries tend to be more expensive, but they extend cycle life and increase safety which are important to industrial users.
“The holy grail per se in lithium-ion battery technology is to move towards a solid-state battery, which uses lithium metal as the anode. So, your cell phone battery or all these electric car batteries, they right now use a liquid electrolyte, a polymer separator, and graphite anode. If you change that graphite to lithium metal and you change that liquid electrolyte to a solid, which is what you need to work with lithium metal, then your energy density of that battery increases by at least a factor of two.”
This means your EV would go twice as far on a single charge. Your phone would need recharging half the time.
“You’re going to need lots of batteries and it’s going to be like Baskin-Robbins. There’s not going to be one battery that works for everything. You’re going to have many different flavours and those flavours will work with different applications. And there’s thousands and thousands of very smart people working on development of new materials all the time. So, you’re going to continue to see improvements in lithium-ion battery technology.”
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Episode 167 Transcript
Disclosure:
The information and opinions presented in this ARC Energy Ideas podcast are provided for informational purposes only and are subject to the disclaimer link in the show notes.
Announcer:
This is the ARC Energy Ideas podcast with Peter Tertzakian and Jackie Forrest. Exploring trends that influence the energy business.
Jackie Forrest:
Welcome to the ARC Energy Ideas podcast. I’m Jackie Forrest.
Peter Tertzakian:
And I’m Peter Tertzakian. Well, here we are in September on the eve of winter, which is just around the corner. We know that there’s all sorts of concerns in Europe about energy, natural gas. Storage levels are high, but flows have been restricted from Russia. That’s one kind of storage of energy, but I think we should also have a discussion about battery technology and electrical storage. What do you think?
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah. I think that’s a great topic, one I wanted to have on the podcast for a while. When you look at different projections about how the energy transition will play out, one of the big uncertainties is how prevalent battery technology will be. Today’s lithium-ions… They definitely work well for short duration utility storage. We’re seeing more and more of that go in and obviously electric cars, but they’re still expensive and the supply and cost of materials is constraining growth. And then there’s other applications that we need storage for, like long duration electrical storage season to season or month to month or long-distance hauling with vehicles like the big semi-trucks where battery technology is not quite there yet. So, we’re really excited to announce our guest here joining us from Ontario, who is someone who can help us understand the current and future state of battery technology. Welcome Dr. Raj DasGupta, the chief executive officer of Electrovaya.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Thanks so much, Jackie and Peter, for having me here. It’s a pleasure to speak with you.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah. Welcome, Raj. Well, I have a special affinity with Electrovaya, which is a Canadian battery company. Obviously being in Ontario, 20 years ago I helped raise… I think it was a hundred million dollars for the company in its early days. And here we are 20 years later. You’ve taken over from your father and we’re delighted to have you.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Well again, thanks so much. And yeah, it’s a nice rainy day here in Mississauga after many, many days of no rain. So, it’s actually nice to see.
Peter Tertzakian:
Good, good. Well, tell us a little bit about Electrovaya. As I said, I got acquainted with the company 20 years ago, but maybe just give us the very quick history of the company and how it became a Canadian battery leader.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Yeah. So Electrovaya has a very interesting history. We have been in the lithium-ion battery space for a long time. You just mentioned you helped us go public in 2000. And those were very early days for lithium-ion battery technology. The companies that were present around that time are for the most part not necessarily the big players that are there today. So, Sony was one of the major companies in lithium-ion batteries in the 1990s and early two thousands. There was a company in Vancouver called Molly Energy. A lot of the initial players, unfortunately, didn’t take part in the current boom.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
The industry itself is, as you can imagine, growing exponentially and is currently heavily dominated by large Asian-based conglomerates. And as a result, to be relevant you have to be innovative. And that’s been Electrovaya’s strategy all along. We’ve continuously remained at the cutting edge with respect to technology and that’s how we’ve survived. While there are many battery companies that have come and gone, we’ve managed to stay relevant and stay in the business. And we’ve continuously reinvented ourselves with coming up with some new cutting-edge technology. And I think today we’re very, very well positioned in the market for certain industry segments.
Jackie Forrest:
Okay, well, let’s talk about some of these topics. We’re going to have three areas today. We’re going to talk about current technology, future technology, and I know, Raj, that you’re looking at solid state batteries. So, we’re really interested to hear about that. And then we’re going to talk about ramping up battery manufacturing and the supply chain in North America. Because as we spoke on previous podcasts, the new bill in the United States we think is going to drive a lot more manufacturing here in North America. So, we want to talk about that.
Jackie Forrest:
But let’s get to the first topic, battery technology today. So, the first question is you produce batteries using the lithium-ion technology. Why is this battery type good for the applications we use it today, the utility scale storage for short duration, and electric cars? And should we be concerned about safety? That always comes up when it comes to lithium-ion.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
I’ll start with the first thing, why lithium-ion technology in general? Lithium-ion technology is becoming ubiquitous. First started really taking over and enabling consumer electronics. You wouldn’t have the cell phone revolution that you have today without lithium-ion batteries. So that’s really what got the technology started on a commercial scale and now we’re seeing its implementation in everything else: electric vehicles, energy storage, robotics, and the like. So fundamentally, lithium-ion technology offers much higher energy density than any other battery technology out there. And this is fundamentally what is driving its implementation in all these applications.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Now, whenever you’re storing energy, whether that be in your hot cup of coffee or electricity in your battery, safety is always something that is a concern and something that needs to be managed. Electrovaya has certain technologies specific for safety. One piece of that is we make what we call lithium-ion ceramic batteries or our marketing name for it is our infinity battery technology. And this is based on using full ceramic separator membranes. Ceramic materials are stable at high temperature, as opposed to standard lithium-ion batteries, which use polymer separator membranes. And this gives us a much higher degree of safety. That said, of course, safety… Always, whenever you’re storing energy, like I said, you need to manage it carefully.
Peter Tertzakian:
And so actually talk about where we are with the applications of that kind of technologies. Well, actually, let me just back up. You talked about the consumer revolution with cell phones, but there’s been this progression… Battery technologies and it wasn’t necessarily lithium-ion. It started out with hand watches in the 1960s and then gradually got scaled up to things like cell phones and then hobby modeling and model helicopters, airplanes, in the two thousands and then cars. And now we’re talking about utility scale. So, the polymer ones are still the ubiquitous ones in the electric vehicle and below. Are we using the ceramic type technologies now to get up higher to the utility scale?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
And it is an interesting proposition. So, we developed this ceramic technology in partnership with our German subsidiary years back around 2015. And what we found was it was providing much better safety when combined with some aspects with cell design and electrolyte formulations. We were also seeing our cycle life, which means the number of cycles you can do on the battery before it reaches its end of life… We were extending that by a factor of two to three times.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
So, what we’ve ended up with is a chemistry or a technology which provides better safety and will allow you to cycle it all day long and it won’t be degrade. On the negative side, it’s slightly more expensive. So, we found that certain applications like electric vehicles, which was what we had applied this to initially… So if you see any Daimler E Smart cars, a lot of those vehicles have this technology in them. It was somewhat overkill for those applications because your electric vehicle, while the battery is big, it doesn’t get cycled very heavily. I’ll drive my car to work every day. It sits parked 23 hours a day and I’ll do one cycle on that battery in a week. It doesn’t need to last forever.
Peter Tertzakian:
Cycling is basically charging, discharging.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Charge and discharge, right. Yeah. So, you may notice your cell phone… After two years, it’s no longer getting the capacity it did on day one and probably want to get a new phone.
Peter Tertzakian:
Because it wears down basically in a human context.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
So, with us, we said we needed to find an application which needed this type of longer lasting capability and better safety capability. And actually, we came up with applications that you don’t really see day-to-day and that’s in the material handling space. So, if you go to any warehouse, whether it be operated by a Walmart or Amazon or any of these leading companies, you’ll notice that they have hundreds of electric vehicles operating within those buildings. And those electric vehicles can have pretty large batteries, up to 40 kilowatt hours. So similar to what you would see in a Nissan LEAF.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
The difference is those vehicles operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week often. And they will do one, two, sometimes even three cycles on a battery in a single day. So that was the perfect type of application for our technology and it’s what we focused on from 2018 onwards. And that has turned this company around. We’ve had a very successful partnership with one of the leading OEMs in the space and we’re deploying batteries in warehouses across the continent right now.
Jackie Forrest:
You’re also producing batteries I guess through maybe other manufacturers. So, let’s talk a little bit. One of the concerns around lithium-ion is the materials, mainly nickel, manganese, and cobalt, going up in price. Have you noticed an increase in the prices and is it harder to get supplies of these materials?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Yes. The commodity prices have increased substantially, especially in the last let’s say 12 months, as have many other commodities. So, we’ve seen this happen and we’ve had to increase the prices of our systems to our end customers as a result. We’ve had to pass on some of those price increases. Hopefully what we’ve seen is it’s stabilizing. We’ll have to watch and see. It’s very hard to predict what happens with these types of commodity prices.
Peter Tertzakian:
So as these commodity prices go up, things like nickel, cobalt, and so on, the move seems to be by other battery manufacturers or even auto makers to go to other types of elements in the chemistry, including things like iron, phosphorous, those sorts of things in the chemistry. Do you see that as a trend? And how would that affect what you’re doing?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
So, on the chemistry side of things, whether it’s the cathode or the anode, our approach to the whole space is we’re a platform technology. And that platform is around the separator and electrolyte and cell design. So, on the actual chemistry used in the cathode, whether it’s NMC, nickel, manganese, cobalt based chemistries, or LFP, lithium, iron, phosphate-based chemistries, we can use either and you’ll still get the same benefits in terms of safety and cycle life either way.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
That said, our systems today are focused on NMC-based chemistries because we are extending the cycle life and increasing the safety. You get a better benefit of that when you use a higher energy density chemistry, which is what NMC offers. So, the LFP-based batteries are typically being used on lower end applications, for lower range electric vehicles. And there’s definitely a space for that in those applications.
Peter Tertzakian:
So basically, what you’re saying is people who buy cell phones and vehicles are very cost sensitive and so there’s a certain chemistry that goes with that. People who buy forklifts in warehouses typically buy for greater utility like number of cycles and power density, so on and so forth. And so, they’re willing to pay more and are less cost sensitive. Is that a fair statement?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Yes. So, a typical battery produced by Electrovaya will cost significantly more in dollar per kilowatt hour.
Jackie Forrest:
Talking about these lithium, iron, and phosphate, or LFPs, Ford announced that they’re moving to them. And I think part of it is it’s hard to get all the materials they need for the ramp up they need and want to do so it provides alternative materials, but it does potentially have maybe less performance than if they’d gone with the more standard battery. Do you think you’re going to see more automakers go into different chemistries? Because there is a lot of pressure to reduce the price of these electric vehicles. Do you think that’s going to be a trend that other automakers are going to start to follow as well and maybe give up some performance for price?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
I think they already do. So, it depends on the vehicle. If you’re looking at a high-performance vehicle, you’re going to focus on performance. And if you’re trying to make a low-cost vehicle, you’re going to focus on dollar per kilowatt hour. So, it depends on the vehicle, which is what I think is happening in the industry right now.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Us as a company, we’re focused on what the not dollar per kilowatt hour is, but what the overall cost of ownership over a period of time is, which is more what the energy storage industry should be looking at. So instead of looking at just your upfront cost, we’re looking at what that cost is over 7, 10, 15 years. And those are those types of commercial applications which utilize the energy storage asset more. They’re looking at utilization rates that are much higher. They’re very focused on that overall cost of ownership. So, efficiency, making sure it doesn’t degrade quickly, avoiding augmentations. In the case of electric buses, for instance, they’re looking at the batteries that should last the lifetime of the vehicle and right now standard lithium-ion technologies do not. So, they actually build in year six a battery replacement or something like that.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
So, we’re very focused on those types of applications where we can say, “Hey, you only have one Electrovaya battery. It’ll last that entire period of time. And even if it costs a bit more upfront, your overall cost is significantly lower.” And that’s where we’re seeing success. So, we’re trying to get out of this mindset of, “This is the dollar per kilowatt hour,” because that’s not how batteries work. They degrade. They’re chemical assets.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah. Yeah. So actually, on that note, they’re chemical assets, the dominant current chemistry is liquid electrolytes without getting too technical here. And you’re working on solid state batteries, which don’t have any liquids within the batteries. So, talk about that and how it fits into this whole idea of longer duty cycles and reliability and so on.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Perfect. Yeah. So, the holy grail per se in lithium-ion battery technology is to move towards a solid-state battery, which uses lithium metal as the anode. So, your cell phone battery or all these electric car batteries, they right now use a liquid electrolyte, a polymer separator, and graphite anode. If you change that graphite to lithium metal and you change that liquid electrolyte to a solid, which is what you need to work with lithium metal, then your energy density of that battery increases by at least a factor of two.
Peter Tertzakian:
So that means your range on an electric vehicle goes up by two, basically?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Yeah. It would double your range, or your battery weight would drop by half. I wouldn’t say it enables electric vehicles because electric vehicles are already good, but it would enable very high-performance electric vehicles. It would potentially enable electric aircraft and potentially it would also lower the cost of the batteries because you would need less of them.
Jackie Forrest:
Just think about getting a thousand-kilometer range on an electric vehicle, how much more utility that could provide.
Peter Tertzakian:
Well, yeah, I mean, that’s the number one anxiety, is range anxiety. I believe we’ve already technically crossed that threshold, but this would definitely make a compelling vehicle.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
It makes it better, right? You always want to be better, right? Maybe you’re you want a faster chip. You want a better battery. I’d say personally, I believe the current… You can buy an electric vehicle today which has more range than your IC engine car.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah. So how far away are we from realizing the potential of solid state in a commercial sense?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
So, we are very optimistic that our development here with respect to solid state batteries is moving quite nicely. Now to date, no company has commercialized solid state batteries, at least room temperature solid state batteries. And there are a number of companies working on it, including us. That said, I believe we have a long history with working with ceramic separator membranes and here with the solid-state batteries. And again, it is a ceramic separator membrane. In this case, it’d be ionically conducting. So, it’s a bit different, but we have a lot of know-how and a lot of technology in this space. We have an entirely separate team working on solid state batteries at a different facility. And we’ve made some public announcements with some initial results. Overall, I’m very optimistic that we’re tracking down a route where we can see this being commercialized definitely within the next five years, hopefully sooner.
Jackie Forrest:
Now, I know companies like Toyota are also talking about putting them in the electric cars. Is there an advantage for the materials? Are they more available and less concerns around constraints of supply? What are the fundamental… Obviously lithium, but what else is in them?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Fundamentally, you’d still be using similar materials to standard lithium-ion battery. So, your cathode material would still NMC or lithium, iron, phosphate or whatever you prefer to use there. That said, the number of materials per unit volume or per unit weight will drop. So, you’ll need less materials in that sense, but you’ll still need the same materials.
Jackie Forrest:
So, it doesn’t totally get away from some of the constraints in terms of ramping up production?
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah. But I think that word ramping up is the key, because the trick in battery manufacturing these days is not so much proving that you can make a solid-state battery. Lots of labs have done that. It’s actually creating a manufacturing line that drives down the costs and produces batteries in high volume reliably. Isn’t that the big issue?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Yes. So, with solid state batteries there have been challenges. There’s reasons that you don’t see solid state batteries commercially available today. And one big part of that is being able to manufacture it. That’s something that we’re very focused on and we’re utilizing methods that can be scaled.
Peter Tertzakian:
So, it’s really a process engineering problem, isn’t it?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
I believe we’re at the point where it’s process engineering and that’s the limiting factor and that’s what we’re very focused on.
Jackie Forrest:
Okay. Well, before we go into talking about ramping up battery manufacture, are there any other technologies, materials beyond solid state… I know you’re busy trying to get the solid state up and running. But that people should be watching? We hear about things like sodium ion or dirt batteries. Are there other things you think that have potential? Because we’re going to need a lot of batteries, especially if we’re going to start to use this for utility storage in long duration.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
You’re going to need lots of batteries and it’s going to be like Baskin-Robbins. There’s not going to be one battery that works for everything. You’re going to have many different flavors and those flavors will work with different applications, just like our current infinity battery technology. It’s ideal for some of these heavy-duty applications, but you probably wouldn’t want to use it necessarily on your EV battery, maybe overkill. And there’s thousands and thousands of very smart people working on development of new materials all the time. So, you’re going to continue to see improvements in lithium-ion battery technology.
Peter Tertzakian:
And most of the batteries are manufactured in China. I think it’s like 80% of them. The US is growing, but it’s 6%. Canada… It’s not even listed in… The S&P global listings were so small, I guess. And that includes you. So, what’s our issue here? You guys have been around for a while. You’re ramping up, but it just seems like a country with so much other raw materials, educated population… Shouldn’t we be a lot higher in terms of where we’re at in terms of battery manufacturing?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
For certain. And I think our governments maybe missed the ball 10 years ago. We should have invested and supported local industry at that point, which is why China and Korea are so dominant in lithium-ion battery manufacturing. At a nation level they made significant investments in their industries and that is paying off today. Now, that said, it’s not too late. The American government… There’s been recent legislation passed. They’re going to be making a big push on this. People realize that the internal combustion engine is coming to an end, and you need to have domestic manufacturing of this critical technology. So, I think you will see some of that. We are ourselves making efforts to reshore cell assembly into the US specifically. And what we’re seeing in the industry is a lot of the materials, production, cathode, anode are also starting to reshore to support domestic manufacturing. So hopefully that pendulum will swing a bit. Also, with respect to next generation solid state batteries, this is a way you can jumpstart things a little further. If North American companies come up with better technology, that will enable us to be more competitive.
Jackie Forrest:
So, Raj, I want to hit on something you said though. The incentives in the US are so strong with the new Inflation Reduction Act. I think you’re going to get paid a certain amount of money for each unit of cells or battery cells that you produce. So, I don’t see a lot of manufacturing coming to Canada. I think it’s all going to come to the US because of those manufacturing incentives. And I think they’re around until the early 2030s.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
So, as we’ve publicly stated, we are planning to set up a large manufacturing site in the US. We haven’t decided exactly where that will be just yet. And a lot of that has to do with some of these incentives… That one you just mentioned. Are pushing. And also, it’s a market pull. We have two facilities here in Canada, but we export the vast majority of our products to the US. So, it’s an important place for us to have a production base anyway, but these things like the Inflation Reduction Act also accelerate and help support growing that further.
Jackie Forrest:
But I do think it’s something that Canada has to recognize. We talked about that in earlier podcast, Peter. Incentives mean that’s where the investment’s going to go, and I think Canada has to consider how we can do that. Now, there are some incentives for I guess the EV credits, that if the battery came from Canada, you’d be able to apply for that. But to me, that’s a secondary benefit. Getting this manufacturing subsidy is really going to drive a lot of the investment to happen in the US, I think.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
I think so. I think Canada to some degree sort of missed it. That’s my opinion. We’re very focused on the minerals, but the battery… It’s like a solar cell. The solar cell is made of sand. The technology is in making that into a solar cell. The batteries, it’s not quite to that level. The minerals, the critical materials, are more important. That said, the technology is in the cell design, in the electrode making. And that’s where we haven’t placed enough attention at the national level.
Peter Tertzakian:
Competition is at a national level for batteries and all sorts of other energy-related technologies. And so, we’ve got to be thinking about how to facilitate that and encourage companies like yours to keep your manufacturing lines at home and not ship them abroad.
Peter Tertzakian:
So, let’s maybe wrap up here as we get to the end of the program about the role of storage and batteries. Actually, there’s this one thing that I key in on at a micro level before we talk about this at a more macro level, and that is that you’re targeting the forklift market, which we talked about earlier, and that there was great excitement about using hydrogen and hydrogen is used in fuel cells in forklifts. But actually I [inaudible 00:27:50] that this is a competition between solid state or… Just, well actually electrochemical storage as in batteries and hydrogen storage. How do you think about that? And it seems to me like battery technologies are always improving to the point where actually in many markets, it may overtake the whole hydrogen thing. Would you agree with that?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Of course, Peter, I’m biased. I’m a battery guy.
Peter Tertzakian:
Of course. You’re biased. Yeah.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
So that said, I do think that is the case. Fuel cells taking material handling. Material handling is a very demanding market. And lithium-ion battery technology five years ago was not up to the task in that market. So leading companies like Walmart started using fuel cells. Company called Plug Power has been very successful in that market and continues to be. So we look up to them for… They’ve done an amazing job.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
That said, with the way our technology is going… The infinity technology. You can charge that battery very rapidly. It doesn’t degrade. You don’t need to change batteries in the vehicle. So it’s starting to make some of those reasons that fuel cells were being implemented less attractive. I think also infrastructure-wise electrical infrastructure is already well established while hydrogen infrastructure is quite tricky.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah. Okay. So, let’s just wrap up by taking us up to the biggest level, which is the utility scale grid. And so, what kind of battery technologies are there? Are you playing there? Because ultimately electrification and decarbonization is necessarily going to need electrical storage at a grid level. And so where are we at with that?
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
For sure. So, if you want to implement more renewables, you need more storage. And I think people realize that and that is gaining momentum. What I’ve noticed though in the utility space is some of the developers got a little too caught up on capital costs rather than the operating and overall cost of ownership. So, for instance, if there was someone building an energy storage site, they would often put out an RFP and get bids from the battery companies and the lowest dollar per kilowatt hour proposal would typically win. What that probably leads to is maybe they’re picking a battery technology that will need to be augmented after six years instead of something that will last 20 years. And as the industry matures, I think you will see more attention to the longer term. I was actually just speaking with someone yesterday who said he was the first augmentation engineer for one utility company. He was just focused on how to augment energy storage installations such that they kept their name plate capacity.
Peter Tertzakian:
Well, that’s all really fascinating. Thanks very much, Raj DasGupta, CEO of Electrovaya. Your insights are really appreciated. And for me personally, it’s great to reconnect after so many years of interacting with your company.
Dr Rajshekar DasGupta:
Well, thanks so much, Peter and Jackie. It’s been a pleasure.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah. Thanks for joining the podcast. And to our listeners, if you like this podcast, please rate us on the app that you listen to and tell someone else about us.
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