Making History: Enbridge Partners with Indigenous Communities on Pipelines
In September 2022, Enbridge and 23 First Nations and Metis communities announced that the Indigenous groups would buy an 11.57% non-operating interest in Enbridge operated pipelines in the Athabasca region of northern Alberta for $1.12 Billion – it has been called the first of its kind and an historic announcement.
This week, Justin Bourque, President of Athabasca Indigenous Investments and Colin Gruending, Enbridge’s Executive Vice President and President of Liquids Pipelines join the podcast to tell us more about the agreement.
Here are some of the questions Peter and Jackie asked Justin and Colin: How will the agreement help the 23 communities who are now equity partners in the pipeline system? How did Athabasca Indigenous Investments finance their share of the pipeline for over $1 billion?
What was the process like – who made the first phone call and how long did it take to come to an agreement? Do you foresee more equity partnerships occurring in the future? What is your advice for how companies should participate in iIndigenous reconciliation?
Content referenced in this podcast:
- Book Recommendation: 21 Things You May Not Know About the Indian Act by Bob Joseph
- Enbridge’s Indigenous Reconciliation Action Plan including the artwork of Jason Carter
- Athabasca Indigenous Investments
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Episode 187 transcript
Disclosure:
The information and opinions presented in this ARC Energy Ideas podcast are provided for informational purposes only and are subject to the disclaimer link in the show notes.
Announcer:
This is the ARC Energy Ideas podcast, with Peter Tertzakian and Jackie Forrest. Exploring trends that influence the energy business.
Jackie Forrest:
Welcome to the ARC Energy Ideas podcast. I’m Jackie Forrest.
Peter Tertzakian:
And I’m Peter Tertzakian. Welcome back. Well, I’ve noticed, Jackie, downtown is really busy. The +15s are humming. I’m just bumping into people again as I walk around and the number one thing people say is, “I can’t believe it’s February.” There’s the usual sort of like, “how’s it going? How you doing?” But I just can’t believe it’s February. Certainly, we can’t say, “how was your holidays?” I mean, that seems like a distant memory, or, “Happy New Year,” that’s long gone in January. So, I’ve also taken to thinking about, “well, what else can I say to people?” And one of the things is, “well, what books are on your table?” Because typically people give me gifts over the holidays, and books pile up on my bedside table. So, Jackie, what books are on your bedside table?
Jackie Forrest:
Well, it’s true. I never have time to read books, but I always have a bunch that I want to read. But over the Christmas holidays, I did read one that I want to mention to everyone. It’s called [21 Things You May Not Know About The Indian Act.] It’s actually quite a short read, so I know we all have short attention spans, so it’s a quick read.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah, me too.
Jackie Forrest:
But we talk a lot about reconciliation and the schools and everything, but I didn’t really appreciate, this goes back to the history of the Indian Act, and there were some real problems with it and the Indigenous People in Canada in the early days. They were in a democracy, but they weren’t given the rights that everybody else was given, and I didn’t really appreciate that. So, I think it’s really worth reading and it also has all of those recommendations from the Truth and Reconciliation Report. So anyway, I really recommend people to read it. It definitely gave me a lot more insight about our history as a country.
Peter Tertzakian:
All right, fantastic. Well, maybe we’ll put the link to that book on the recording website.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah, we’ll do that on the show notes.
Peter Tertzakian:
Okay. Well, and it’s very appropriate because today we have two very special guests that we want to introduce to you. But let me just give you some background before we start. In September 2022, Enbridge and 23 First Nations and Métis communities announced that the Indigenous groups would buy an 11.57% non-operating interest in seven Enbridge-operated pipelines in the Alberta Athabasca region for $1.12 billion. As you know, Jackie, this has been called a historic agreement because of the magnitude, but also because of the whole truth and reconciliation and these sorts of things that we’re going to talk about in terms of corporate involvement in truth and reconciliation. So, it’s really with pleasure that we have two guests; one from Enbridge, he’s the Executive Vice President and President of the Liquids Pipeline Group who represented Enbridge on these negotiations, Mr. Colin Gruending. Welcome Colin.
Colin Gruending:
Thanks, Peter.
Peter Tertzakian:
And we’re also very fortunate to have Justin Bourque, President of Athabasca Indigenous Investments, and he represents the group that the 23 First Nations and Métis communities who now own part of the seven operating pipelines. So welcome Justin.
Justin Bourque:
Thank you very much. I’m happy to be here.
Jackie Forrest:
Well, maybe we could start off just for giving a bit of background about each of you. We’ll start maybe with Colin, tell us about yourself and your current role leading the Enbridge Liquid Pipelines.
Colin Gruending:
Sure, Jackie, yeah, and thanks for having me here, too. Home is Calgary. Grew up in Saskatchewan but have lived here for 30 + years, raised our family. I’ve been with Enbridge for 20 plus years, many different capacities, mostly finance, formerly CFO of the company. Now I’m in the role where I lead our crude oil and liquids pipeline business. As many know, we have a large footprint, over 28,000 kilometers of pipeline in the network that largely moves oil from Alberta down through Chicago, down Cushing, Oklahoma, and to the Gulf. We move about 30% of the crude in North America. So, it’s a big system, and one of the most important parts of it is the part of the business that we’re now partners with Justin and his colleagues on in the Athabasca region where we have seven trunk lines that move crude oil down to Edmonton and Hardisty. And so, kind of think of that is kind of the riverhead of the system.
Jackie Forrest:
Great. Well, and Justin, maybe tell us about yourself and how you came to lead this group of 23, that forged this historic agreement with Enbridge.
Justin Bourque:
Yeah, thanks Jackie. Yeah. I’d like to think of myself as having a very organic career, one with an important traditional upbringing. I like to say businessman by day, bushman by night is how I like to frame it. I grew up in the community of Anzac, which is about 30 minutes south of Fort McMurray and raised a traditional Métis lifestyle on my family’s trap line where I continue to live. I practice a traditional lifestyle and living as sustainably as I possibly can out there. I have my own solar set up and I try to be as off grid as I can be in today’s kind of world, teach my kids and the youth. I have a program as well where I like to teach the high school students a lot about land-based learning program and stuff like that. So, it’s very important for me.
In fact, it’s kind of maintaining a balance for me. The fast pace of our society and of business can really consume a person, and everybody needs a way to decompress. So, for me, it really helps me, being on the land and that’s an important part. For my career, I’ve been blessed of being raised in the oil sands with an abundance of opportunity for employment and continuous development. So, for 22 years, I’ve navigated my way through industry for a wide variety of capacities before I became an Indigenous leader. I started at the age of 16 as an apprentice and worked my way up through a number of different roles into the industry that quite literally boomed in my backyard, if you will. I think a lot of that background and history for me came really at the forefront as we started talking about this deal and my experiences and understanding of the business, I think was a key asset for Indigenous communities that were taking part in this transaction. And so, it was a natural fit for me to join into that negotiating committee.
Peter Tertzakian:
Justin used the term Indigenous communities, and we want to make sure that we got the terminology right because I know many of our listeners, and even ourselves, Jackie, you and I sometimes struggle with the right terms to use when speaking about Indigenous groups because of course there’s First Nations and you add Dene, Métis, and so on. And so, with respect to the 23 communities that were part of this deal, is it appropriate to use the sort of umbrella term Indigenous communities? Is that how we should address this?
Justin Bourque:
Thanks for that question. I would say yeah, I think that’s the proper term here. This deal specifically had a diverse group of 23, and that included Cree, Dene and Métis communities, and they’re very unique and diverse on their own, but we all have a place on the Canada Constitution as Indigenous peoples of Canada. So, I think it’s fair to say Indigenous communities, and that’s the term that we use throughout the process.
Jackie Forrest:
Okay. Well, let’s talk a little bit about this exciting deal. And I think it’s first of all historic because, well, there hasn’t been very many of these types of deals done. We’ve talked a lot about them, but very few have been done. I think it’s very interesting that was done on existing assets. It’s often talked about in the context of new projects. So, I think that’s interesting. And when we think about reconciliation, there’s a lot of focus on all the things in the past that were negative, and we should understand those, but it’s really positive to move forward with an opportunity like this.
So, we’ll start with Colin to tell us about the evolution of Enbridge’s focus on Indigenous issues. Before you even thought about doing this deal, you obviously had put a lot of thought into wanting to do projects like this. Many of us think back to the Enbridge Northern Gateway, and that was back 2005 to 2015, where it seemed quite challenging to get Indigenous engagement at that time. However, now you’ve evolved to this point with this first-of-its-kind agreement. So maybe tell us how the focus and strategy has changed in Enbridge over that time when it comes to Indigenous involvement in your operations.
Colin Gruending:
Yeah, thanks Jackie, and I’ll try to abbreviate this answer because it’s been a long evolution. I like how you use that term. Well, first of all, I think we have a unique business relative to most businesses where we have this long linear footprint. We cross many communities, states, provinces. In fact, we interact and neighbor with over 200 Indigenous communities just in the crude pipeline network. So, we’ve been around for many decades, and it’s been a long evolution.
You referenced the Gateway example, but there’s been a lot of interaction and frankly learning along the way, day to day, community by community, project by project. And I think we’ve learned a lot that has informed the evolution to this state of finally co-investing as full partners with Indigenous communities. And on Gateway, as you mentioned, we didn’t get everything right there for sure. We did some things right. We’re proud that we. Some may not recall that we did end up securing equity partnership agreements with the majority of Indigenous communities along the right of way. Now it never proceeded, but it was a first, and I think that’s set a model for this transaction, applying the learnings.
Another big step in our evolution to put a point on it, would be around our Line 3 Replacement Project that we put into service in the fall of 2021. 10 billion dollars, eight years in the making, and it was that project I think in particular that really transformed the way we engage differently with Indigenous communities. For example, we created a dedicated supply chain to steer work and contracts to Indigenous groups in Canada and in the United States, over $750 million of contract procurement spend. In Canada alone, we had over 150 Indigenous businesses involved. At the peak, we had 1100 Indigenous workers, representing over 20% of the workforce, and ultimately just broad engagement, including cultural surveys that we participated in and tribal monitors to observe our work and the environmental practices. So, you can see how these pancake and add over time, and then ultimately, we transformed further into attempting and successfully executing an equity co-investment with Justin and 22 other nations to create that full alignment, full on equal partners. So bottom line is, there’s lots there, but we’re still evolving and still learning.
Peter Tertzakian:
So, what you’re saying, Colin, is that there’s been a long road to sort of corporate learning in terms of how to engage with the Indigenous communities. So that’s from your lens. Justin, I’d like to hear from your lens, from the Indigenous side, how you have viewed the evolution of individual communities or the collective dealing with the corporate world. What changes have you seen over the last 20 years?
Justin Bourque:
Oh, I think there’s been some substantial changes over the years. I think we’ve touched on a couple of keywords there that I’ll probably also echo, and the evolution piece, it’s a continuous evolution of progression I think that we’re on, and you mentioned a long road. I think that it’s important to realize that we’re still on that road and we’re not at the end in any way, shape or form, but we’ve definitely come a long way. Historically, I would say that relationships were strained for the most part, a struggle to come to alignment and understand each other, to respect each other in a way. But I think we got to stop and ask ourselves why at some point in time. And I think some of the challenges historically have been bred through the process in which we were needed to engage in. So, I think some of that process through the formal construct of a consultation, sorry, is… I think consultation’s very, very necessary, and has had a very important role both in the past and today currently.
But it also creates an environment of conflict, if you will, where typically there’s a winner and a loser and there’s little room for collaboration through consultation. And I think we continue to see ourselves move through the evolution and we see a new way now, and one that’s open, collaborative and inclusive. I’d say that that new way now is more through an engagement lens than a consultation, formal construct lens. And when you open that door to engagement, you have the opportunity and it’s a different framework. We can both listen, we can both learn, and we get to create respect and understanding for each other. But I think most importantly, through engagement, we begin to see the mutual opportunity that it has to work together. So, I think over the past 20 plus years, there’s been a long road that we’ve been on and a great progression on that evolution. But reality is that it is still a long road, but at least now we’re on the same road and in the same direction if you will, so to speak.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah. I really like, Justin, how you talked about it was always sort of a winner and a loser sort of scenario with the negotiations, now it’s more working collaboratively and being partners. Big change, obviously. Colin, many of our listeners may not know that Enbridge is one of the first corporate Canadian companies to issue an Indigenous reconciliation action plan. For those that haven’t read the book that I read, the Truth and Reconciliation Report did have an action number 92 that called upon businesses in Canada to commit in a meaningful way to consultation equitable access to jobs, education. Now, Enbridge has moved in the direction of that with this report and made a bunch of commitments.
I do want to have a little side note. It’s really worth looking at that report not only because of the great content, but the artwork in it is amazing too. So, I will put a link in the show notes. Jason Carter, who’s an Indigenous sculptor, painter and illustrator, actually did a lot of work to illustrate your report. And so, I encourage people to look at it for two reasons, and it’s exciting to see Jason get so much profile and you see his work everywhere, but it was exciting to see it in your report as well. But anyway, back to this. Colin, tell us about the commitments you made, some of them are quite significant, and how you’re going to track them and make sure you actually deliver on some of those.
Colin Gruending:
Yeah, thanks Jackie. We share your excitement about Jason’s work. Our art is important, and it draws people I think, hopefully into the document, hopefully inspires them and helps us remember to act on the commitments made in the document. You mentioned that our IRAP, so it’s an Indigenous reconciliation action plan. It is one of the first in the country and in the industry and I think timely and necessary to bring together some of the pancaked behaviors and commitments that we’ve been accumulating and that society’s accumulating. And so, we formed this plan with consultation from Indigenous communities, that makes sense, and there’s 22 tangible, measurable, publicly reportable commitments in the plan. We’ve organized them in various categories, for example, community engagement, employment and education, sustainability, economic inclusion, which is where this partnership would fall, governance, leadership, et cetera. So, it’s really about increasing our accountability around this and improving. And so, we’ll report our progress against these commitments annually and we’ll publish a full report every couple years.
Peter Tertzakian:
Well, it all sounds like the agreement being, as you said, Colin, first of its kind serves as a template to go forward along with this long road, Justin, that you talked about. But let’s dig into the agreement itself, the equity share and the 11.57 % to be precise percent of equity. Talk about that and what it means to the Indigenous communities.
Justin Bourque:
Working our way through that deal, I would say it was a great experience for myself and for the 23 communities and their leadership to really come to a good understanding with the corporate world, with Enbridge, and starting to continue to walk that road that we were. I’d say I think one of the things that I would highlight here with this deal is more so what the communities are going to be doing on a go forward now that this deal is complete and that revenues are going to be flowing to the communities and starting to build their own capacity. And I just probably would share a couple of examples of that on what the capacity and those cash flows will be doing for communities.
I mean, think I’ve heard one community has recently built a new school, and one of their challenges are how do they bring teachers in, good teachers, and keep them there? And part of that is this deal will provide them that capacity. So, I’ve heard that one community talk about how many, in reflection, how many good solid teachers that they can bring into their school and start educating their youth. Another group was talking about building a health and dental plan for their citizens and how do they support them from that aspect and amplify their health and their dental throughout? Some are buying land and building critical infrastructure. I even heard one group had a plan for enhancing their living standards of their elders. So really impactful and important things that are going to be going to these communities.
Peter Tertzakian:
That’s really consequential. So, let’s just go to the deal, Colin. So effectively, Enbridge sold to the consortium of 23 communities, part of the equity in the seven pipelines. Is that how our audience should think about it simplistically, they bought an equity stake? How does that work? They get dividends worth 11.57% of the net income?
Colin Gruending:
Yeah, right on finance question. I’m a finance background. So, I can hopefully handle this one, Peter. So yeah, if you think about just the visual of the seven pipes coming down to Edmonton and Hardisty, if you kind of draw a circle around those, they have an enterprise value about $10 billion, ballpark. We sold an 11% interest to Justin and his 22 colleagues, for $1.1 billion. They then financed that with debt and equity, effectively, and so there’ll be conventional full on equity partners receiving quarterly dividends, as Justin was describing, distributed equally amongst the members. The deal was financed effectively with a 100% debt. And this is where the Alberta government came in through the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corp, AIOC. It’s kind of a unique, very effective funding means, in the form of a loan guarantee on part of the debt, which basically transformed that piece of debt into equity so that aII could then conventionally project finance the balance. So maybe that’s too much finance, but yeah, effectively conventional equity partners with quarterly dividends.
Jackie Forrest:
Well, I think that’s important. As I said, this is maybe one of the first agreements at least of this magnitude that’s been done. And I think financing, correct me I’m wrong, has financing been an issue? Do you think that this AOIC helped make this, facilitate this deal to be able to happen?
Colin Gruending:
I think so. Justin will have a point of view too. I mean it’s kind of been the missing link for many decades in Canada. We’ve talked about this notion of Indigenous investment for a long time, and this is a very effective means to do so. I think Saskatchewan’s got now a similar program, which is encouraging, and I expect other jurisdictions are looking at this too. And hopefully the federal government.
Peter Tertzakian:
I’m just going to sort of talk off the top of my head here, but it would be nice if ultimately the governments did not have to provide the backstop, that there was confidence in what Justin and his Indigenous groups are doing such that the financial community would be more inclined to be the investing partner. I mean, we’re seeing that with sustainable finance into green and clean projects and preferential sort of structures that are emerging in that, but if we think about sustainability in the broader ESG context, it strikes me that the financial community also has more of a responsibility to participate in this kind of breakthrough kind of deals such that in future. Ultimately it is corporate partnerships with Indigenous community, not only in Alberta but across the country. Is that how you’re thinking?
Justin Bourque:
Peter, I think you’re hitting the nail on the head there in terms we’re on that road in that journey. And one of the things that the AIOC does provide is that capacity to allow for participation in resource development today. You got to also think that 23 Indigenous communities, very diverse and very different in their own capacities and abilities to raise capital and such. And so, this is the first of its kind, and yeah, we definitely needed a little bit of support from a corporation like the AIOC in order to backstop and to be able to allow us to all collectively to participate. But then we’re building capacity as we do this more and more. And I think the future, my views of the future, is that there is a day where the Indigenous consortiums are able to raise their own debt and to partake in resource development without the need for government to be there.
Colin Gruending:
Just add on to this, I think this is a really good point, and relative to many other types of business investment or industries, energy infrastructure is inherently very financeable. There’s typically contracts, there’s long life contracts, kind of a low-risk commercial prospect lending itself to this. And so conceivably, this type of template could be copy pasted, if you like, to many types of energy infrastructure, electricity transmission, carbon pipelines, hydrogen pipelines, renewable investments, and I would offer existing energy infrastructure which is in the ground today or on the ground today, and not reserved for technologies that are decades away, another generation away.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah, right or projects that are under construction where the total cost is always changing and it’s harder to get a deal done because of that. Justin, I just wanted you to confirm, you talked about all the benefits to each of the communities, but what are you expecting annually in terms of the dividends from this that would flow through to those communities? Just an approximate amount?
Justin Bourque:
Yeah, I think approximately we’re looking at upwards to in and around $10 million annually that would be going to these communities. I think one of the other pieces that I would probably highlight with respect to that is that the way that we like to look at it is talk about Indigenous inclusion and partnership and what it does for the Indigenous parties in the communities, but we don’t really shed light on what it does for our economic opportunity as Canada, as a province, and as a country. You take that value, and you think of if not for this transaction, that value would be going to investors maybe in Canada, maybe in Toronto, maybe in New York, in the US or elsewhere. We’re able to take those cash flows and direct it into our Indigenous communities, which builds their capacity and that will ripple out from those communities into the neighboring towns, into the larger hub cities. And every year it just strengthens us as Canada and as a province in general.
Peter Tertzakian:
Oh yeah. I mean keeping the money within our own borders and jurisdictions and our own communities is just such an important thing, rather than see the dividends go out the back door, not to contribute to things like schools and hospitals and just the betterment of our own communities.
Jackie Forrest:
I’m sure a lot of people are curious about how this actually happened. Who called who? Was it a very long process? I think many of us think that it takes years to hammer out an agreement like this. So, tell us a little bit about how this all came to be and the length of the negotiation.
Colin Gruending:
This is remarkable actually, and I think we’re all a bit surprised, maybe, given the relative precedence and things in the past. We initiated discussions with Indigenous communities in the region in April of 2022, and we ended up signing, Justin, I think the agreement and closed it in October. Very quick by historical standards. We initially consulted with each of the 23 communities individually, sought their interest, invited them to a larger meeting, all 23 accepted, and lots of questions. And I think initially kind of a diverse range of opinions, and suspicions even. But through some transparency and discussion, I think we made some ground and consensus grew and became aligned. Back to the point on existing assets, these are cash flowing already and the sooner you can close the transaction, the sooner those contracted cash flows can find their way into dividends, into the communities. Yeah, we worked together. Justin, I don’t know if you have anything else you want to…
Justin Bourque:
No, I think you framed it well there, Colin. I’d say I would be lying if I thought that all 23 communities were actually going to go in when this was proposed at the beginning of April. Colin touched on some of that apprehension and some of the concerns, and I think there was a varying degree of interest, let’s put it, at the beginning. But I’d say all communities had a willingness to explore what this could potentially be for their respective community. Part of the negotiating committee, I think I got to see firsthand a bit of that evolution take place in terms of what was initially proposed, and as we worked through it, there was a shift throughout that process, I would say. I do have to commend Enbridge and their organizational values. It really became consistent throughout the whole process, and they really did a good job of ensuring that the Indigenous communities’ views were heard and acted upon throughout that process.
And I think it was very important that there us that two-way dialogue and it’s not just, “here’s the deal and you take it, or you leave it.” And that definitely was not the case throughout this process. So back to some of the earlier comments, it really became a meaningful engagement of understanding between the two parties rather than a negotiation, and I think that industry does a real good job of negotiating. They do it every day and that’s kind of one of their key attributes. But I would probably highlight to say it’s not necessarily in a negotiation when you’re dealing with an Indigenous community, it becomes more of that engagement kind of piece and understanding a lot of those factors that we talk about in truth and reconciliation also come true when we’re talking about making a deal here.
Jackie Forrest:
Well, and it’s exciting to see something can get done in I think five- or six-months calendar time. It feels like in this country, we can’t get anything done. So that in itself is really exciting.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah, that’s huge. And you’re talking a lot about meaningful engagement, Justin, and Colin, you’re sort of talking about how this is a first, I think throughout the conversation, words and phrases like this is just a start, it’s going to evolve. It sounds like it’s already evolving. Colin, Enbridge has already announced the Wabamun Carbon Hub project, a CCS project located west of Edmonton, and that is already in negotiations, or tell us what the status of that. My understanding is that the Hub is going to have Indigenous partnership that could own up to 50% of the equity.
Colin Gruending:
Yeah, we’re excited about that as well, Peter, and kind of order of operation, we actually negotiated that LOI a few months before this one with Justin, and like we were saying before, one informs the other. Indeed, near Edmonton at Wabamun, we’re going to store Canada’s next 4 million tons of carbon. It’s next up to bat.
Peter Tertzakian:
Right, and it’s not just oil and gas. It’s like cement. emissions and other industries as well in that heartland.
Colin Gruending:
Great point. Yeah. I know a lot of the conversation in Canada is about oil and gas. This is perhaps unique. This is a not oil and gas, it’s power and cement industries, which are emitters as well. And so, it’s all part of the equation. In Indigenous communities, there’s five local proximal communities that we’re involving there. They’ll have an opportunity to own up to 50% of the carbon pipeline and sequestration assets and can participate in the energy transition. So similar model, equally excited about that.
Jackie Forrest:
All right. Well, this has been a fabulous conversation. We’re so happy that both of you could join us today to tell us about this success story. To wrap it up, I think many companies may be struggling about how to participate in Indigenous reconciliation and how to create better partnerships. What would be some advice you would give them to get going from each of you?
Justin Bourque:
In summary, I think genuine engagement is very important, and the values which those corporations and companies carry are very important to make sure that they hold true to those values because values are very key in Indigenous culture. And so, I think we look to the corporations to carry a very similar type of importance in their values. I already highlighted a little bit, don’t look at it as a negotiation with your Indigenous partners. You’re trying to build a lasting partnership, one that lasts generations at the end of the day, and so when you’re looking at that, you really need to be ready and committed for the long term. It’s not just another deal. Yes, we did this in five to six months, and it was precedent setting and it was fast to close, but the relationship and the engagement piece between us and Enbridge is long-lusting, and that’s an important piece to carry forward and consider.
Colin Gruending:
I’d agree. I like your point on long term. I think at one point your group cited pipeline seven generations, and that’s how we need to think about these relationships. Be humble, listen and learn, and don’t let perfect get in the way of good. There’ll be another part of the relationship to follow, and we can improve it hence forth.
Peter Tertzakian:
Well, that’s just fantastic. This has been a great conversation. We started out with me quizzing Jackie about what’s on her bedside table. She talked about 21 Things You May Not Know About the Indian Act, a book by Bob Joseph that we’ll put the link on. Books like that are generally really informative and super important in terms of understanding and understanding the past and where we’ve been. But I feel like this conversation has been about the here and the now, a really positive story about where we’re also headed in the future. And that’s super important because looking ahead, I feel, after this conversation, very heartened that we can make positive change in this country and move forward with important things that matter to our communities here in Alberta and beyond in other provinces. So thank you very much to both of you. Justin Bourque and Colin Gruending from Enbridge.
Colin Gruending:
Thank you all.
Justin Bourque:
Thanks for having me.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah, thank you for that inspirational story, and thank you to our listeners. If you like this podcast, please rate us on the app that you listen to and tell someone else about us.
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