The Rural Perspective on Wind and Solar Development
This week our guest is Jason Schneider, Director, Rural Municipalities of Alberta (RMA) and Reeve of Vulcan County in Southern Alberta.
The RMA is a progressive, independent association committed to meeting the diverse and changing needs of Alberta’s 69 counties and municipal districts. Since 1909, the RMA has helped rural municipalities advocate for strong, effective local government. The RMA did not ask for a pause on new permits for renewables projects in Alberta; however, they do have concerns that they hope the inquiry will tackle, including the use of prime agricultural land for renewables projects and a lack of plans for reclamation and cleanup.
Jason is also an elected official in Vulcan County. Vulcan County is conveniently located close to Calgary and Lethbridge in southwest Alberta. Including the towns and rural areas, the total population is about 7,000 people. The County covers an area of about 6.5 times larger than Calgary.
Vulcan County currently has four renewable projects operating or under construction, approximately six approved projects, and about a dozen more in the pre-approval, early proposal stages.
Here are some of the questions Jackie and Peter asked Jason: What is the scale of the renewable projects in Vulcan County? Who benefits financially from the projects? What are some of RMA’s concerns with the current process for approving and permitting renewables projects? Is the building of transmission lines also a concern? What are the requirements for reclamation of the projects? If the projects are on private land, why is reclamation a concern of the municipality? Does social media and misinformation contribute to opposition to renewable projects? If so, what is the best way to communicate accurate information to citizens? What changes would you like to see from the Alberta Utilities Commission’s (AUC) inquiry on the development of renewables projects?
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Episode 216 transcript.
Speaker 1:
The information and opinions presented in this ARC Energy Ideas podcast are provided for informational purposes only and are subject to the disclaimer link in the show notes.
Speaker 2:
This is the ARC Energy Ideas podcast with Peter Tertzakian and Jackie Forrest. Exploring trends that influence the energy business.
Jackie Forrest:
Welcome to the ARC Energy Ideas podcast. I’m Jackie Forrest.
Peter Tertzakian:
And I’m Peter Tertzakian and welcome back. Well, you may be able to hear the din in the background. We are here live at the Electricity Transformation Canada conference put on by the Canadian Renewable Energy Association. And Jackie, I have a sense of déjà vu here because it was only about a month ago that we were here in the same spot at the World Petroleum Congress.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah, that’s right. But very different scene. You got the wind turbines and the solar panels. Lots of people here. Great to see people from across Canada and all the different businesses that are growing because of renewables. And it’s everything from the big utility scale stuff to the chargers you can put in your home garage. Yeah, it’s exciting to check out the booths.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah, it’s all here. Well, we also have with us here a special guest and highly relevant to renewable energy because Alberta leads the country in the installation of renewable energy, and that renewable energy happens dominantly in the rural areas of the province. So, we are delighted to have with us Jason Schneider, Director, Rural Municipalities of Alberta, and he’s also the Reeve at Vulcan County in Southern Alberta where all the action is. So welcome Jason.
Jason Schneider:
Thank you. Thank you for having me on.
Peter Tertzakian:
Well, why don’t we just start for the audience here, just starting to gather actually live. Tell us about your two roles. The first with Rural Municipalities of Alberta. What is that organization about?
Jason Schneider:
Sure, yeah, the Rural Municipalities of Alberta, that’s the association of all 69 rural and specialized municipalities here in Alberta. Kind of a unique organization where our members go from right up to the Northwest Territories down to the US border and east to west from BC and Saskatchewan.
The association of us, we do joint advocacy as well as we do some other things that we all collectively buy. We’re all kind of small in population, so we have to kind of team up and work together as well as we run our own insurance program as well. So, we’re kind of a catchall for all of our members.
Peter Tertzakian:
You’re also the elected official in Vulcan County, the reeve, which is like the mayor I take it. So, tell us about Vulcan County and how many people and what area that covers.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, so Vulcan County, we’re south of Calgary in Southern Alberta here. If you draw a line between Calgary and Lethbridge, we’re kind of the in-between there. It’s quite a large landmass. We’re about 1.3 million acres, which to put that in perspective, it’s six and a half times the size of Calgary, but our rural population is about 4,200 people. There is the town of Vulcan and some villages as well that the whole area population is about 7,000 people, which it’s pretty small for that large of a land base.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah.
Jackie Forrest:
As our listeners know, I visited Vulcan County this summer for a road trip and I talked about seeing the Travers Solar Project, which was massive, 13 kilometers squared and there was a big wind farm near there. You’ve been the reeve for seven years. Tell us how the renewable power has grown since you’ve been involved with the municipal government. How many projects do you have today? What’s the capacity and how many projects do you anticipate are still coming?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, so what really has put us on the map is a couple of large-scale projects. So, 10 years ago was our first large scale wind project that came on board. That was the Blackspring Wind Project, 166 turbines. It would actually coincide with the first year I was on council. It was just finishing completion. And the 10 years after that had been a bit of a wild ride. Obviously, the one that makes the most headlines is the Travers Solar Project. That’s a 465 megawatts solar project, largest in Canada, top 10 in North America. We didn’t dip our toes into the pool of renewable energy. It was, we jumped headfirst into the deep end. And so those are the two large ones that are really kind of gained the headlines.
We also have a small solar project just outside the town of Vulcan that’s owned by the Athabascan Fort Chipewyan First Nations. And then currently our next project that’s under construction right now is the Buffalo Plains Wind Project and that’s 83 wind towers that’s going up on east side of Vulcan County. So those are the four that are happening right now that are either online or in construction right now. And then we’ve probably got about, I think there’s about six others that have got their approvals and are just waiting on investment or supply chain to get going. Then there’s probably about a dozen more that are kind of in that proposal phase. So, in the last 10 years, they’ve come fast and furiously, and it’s been a little bit of a wild ride for a rural and small community like ours.
Peter Tertzakian:
If you’re in the audience and have not been down to that part of the world, it’s very flat and ranching country. Give us a sense of scale of this Travers, like 465 megawatt. It’s standing in a field and you can see solar panels from horizon to horizon. Give us a sense of the scale.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah. So what I usually do to put it in context is Nose Hill Park is smaller than the project.
Peter Tertzakian:
That’s in Calgary.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah. So, if you’ve ever walked through Nose Hill Park, it’s a big area and the Travers Solar is larger, both 3,400 acres. I guess in the rural areas, we always talk about acres, and we always put that into perspective, but it’s really massive and if you ever have the chance to go drive by it, you drive for quite a while before you’re out of the panels, but it’s really something to see.
Jackie Forrest:
Well, let’s talk about who benefits. We’re going to talk about some of the concerns too, but does the municipality get financial taxes and things like that and how meaningful is that to your budget?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah. So, the municipal tax portion of it is definitely a benefit for the rural communities like ours. So, I guess for context, our municipality, previous to wind and solar coming in, it’s farming, ranching, so that’s really kind of 50% of our tax base. And then the other 50% was oil and gas. So pretty typical small Southern Alberta community, oil and gas and agriculture kind of go hand in hand. But now in Vulcan County, thanks to all these projects that have shown up on our doorstep, our tax base, probably at the end of 2024, it’ll be probably about 55% to 60% of our tax base will be wind and solar development. So, it’ll actually dwarf oil and gas at its peak in our area at the end of next year. So, it’s pretty substantial and it makes up a big chunk of our tax base and then allows us to be able to deliver the services and maintain the infrastructure that we have.
Peter Tertzakian:
So, what kind of land was the solar farm put on, like take Travers, was that covering up an entire farmer’s field?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, so it’s on about three or four landowners’ property. So, there is about four in the project. So, the land that they chose, the company that developed it was Greengate Power and they specifically were looking for land that was close to transmission but was also had a low agriculture value. So, the land that it went on was actually very low producing land. It really wasn’t suitable for any high intensity agriculture. So, it really made sense. It was a great location for it.
Jackie Forrest:
All right, well that isn’t always the case, and we’ll get to that, but I did notice there was a drought this summer. When I drove by there, it wasn’t much being grown around it either. Who else benefits? So, these four landowners, I’m assuming they benefit financially. What about other people that could be indirectly impacted? I know solar panels maybe it seems that there’s less impact, but there is some impact on neighboring property.
Jason Schneider:
It depends on the project. Some projects like the Travers Solar Project, they do include neighbors who live in a certain proximity into the project. So, they do financially compensate them just for some of the inconvenience that they experience living close to a large project. But currently there is no obligation for the developers to compensate or to work with any of the neighbors. So that can definitely be sometimes a little bit of a controversial side of a project is people that have to live and are being impacted by it but aren’t being financially compensated with the project.
Peter Tertzakian:
So how does the rural municipalities group that you represent deal with that? I mean, there’s a bit of polarization as I understand it in the rural parts where some people are very opposed to it, have all sorts of banners and signs on their properties and others who welcome the panels and the turbines and the financial benefits that go with it. So, does that divide your lobbying efforts from the rural municipalities’ perspective, or I don’t even want to call it lobbying, but advocacy?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, it’s a hard one. Every area is different, every one of our members has different views on it. But at a municipal level, we don’t have a lot of tools in our toolbox to help with the situation. Typically, with other industries that we try to find a balance between everything, between agriculture and residential and commercial, industrial, power production and all of those things. We do it through land use planning. So, we spend a lot of time and effort coming up with land use planning documents. So, I guess the hope is, and the advocacy that we’ve been doing to the provincial government is that these documents hold a lot of weight in the application process so that we can have these projects in areas where they do have the least amount of impact because right now it really is left solely in the hands of AUC to make those kinds of decisions. So, the advocacy really is just let the municipalities be part of that decision-making process so that we can try to find a balance between these types of projects and other industries and uses of the land.
Peter Tertzakian:
Mm-hmm.
Jackie Forrest:
Well, so let’s just clarify. So, you’re saying that if there’s a particular project where everybody in the municipality except for maybe the direct landowners is opposed to it for various reasons, you can bring that to the regulatory process, and it can be completely ignored, and the project just goes forward anyway?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, currently under the AUC, it’s really up to their discretion how much weighting they put onto people’s concerns. And there’s been some projects that have went forward where definitely the landowners have relayed to us as the municipality that they didn’t feel that they were really being heard or that their concerns didn’t hold much weight and it was definitely frustrating because they kind of felt ignored in the system. And that’s definitely been something we’ve been trying to advocate is to make sure that this process, that people do have a voice and that their concerns are being addressed one way or another.
Peter Tertzakian:
Mm-hmm. Well, you’ve got the power generation modalities, the wind and the solar, but then you also need to get that connected to the grid. So what about transmission lines? What is the sense or the sensitivities amongst the rural people around transmission lines?
Jason Schneider:
So we’ve been very fortunate that our large projects, they were sited close to the large transmission lines. So we didn’t really have that fight with landowners. They were literally built right beside the line. So it was good, but as more and more projects were getting proposed and being approved, they were getting further and further away from the large transmission lines. And so then that transmission piece became a big concern and it’s kind of a disjointed process here in Alberta where you get the approval for the project and then you go to the transmission and then you need the approval for the transmission. And we had a couple projects that kind of found out after they’d received all their approvals that all of a sudden now they need 30 kilometers of transmission line in order to tie into the grid. And so now all of a sudden you’re going to all these other landowners and residents and saying, “Well, now there’s a transmission line going through your field or through your farm for a project that’s already been approved.”
And it got pretty controversial and it was definitely something that as an organization we brought up that we need to do that process altogether. We need to look at the transition piece at the same time that we’re looking at the production piece and do them together because we were starting to see that become a very big dividing thing because we’re pretty wide-open spaces. It’s great for agriculture production, but farmers don’t like having to go around big poles going through the middle of their field. It definitely impacts them and then how they work their land and they’re really under the current regulations. You don’t have a lot of a say. You could get your land expropriated in order to make room for that transmission line, which expropriation in rural Alberta is a very dirty word. Rural residents have a real objection to that even if it’s in the public interest.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah, no, I can understand that. And we’re not going to ask you this question, but I just want to acknowledge we had Premier Smith on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and she talked about the other concern is when you have those long transmission lines, the cost to the future consumers, because long transmission lines that just connect one project can add a lot to the overall fees that people pay to get electricity. So, I know that’s also a concern with this inquiry that’s going on with this moratorium.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah. And it really comes down to that planning aspect because currently, yeah, you have to build the line and then it gets turned over to AltaLink and then you as the end user ends up paying for that transmission line. So once again, it comes to that we need proper planning and making sure that we’re building these projects in areas where it really makes sense.
Peter Tertzakian:
Mm-hmm. So, in the oil and gas world, of course, once the productive well is at the end of its life, it has to be abandoned. Typically, it’s suspended first, and it’s abandoned and there’s obligations to do so. What is the obligation in the world of solar and wind?
Jason Schneider:
Currently, prior to the pause, it was a private contract between the developer and the landowner and typically it was under an NDA. So, nobody really got to see into how that was going to actually happen. And it definitely became a bit of a sticking point of just that how we’re going to clean it up. Because one of the phrases we always throw out is in Alberta the cheapest reclamation plan is bankruptcy and we know we’ve seen it in other industries. So then when we had projects going forward and the reclamation piece was being asked about, it was being said, “Don’t worry about it, don’t worry about it, we’ve got it handled.” And once again, I think you find out with rural people is when you tell people, “Don’t worry, we got it figured out,” but you won’t tell them how you got it figured out, they get really suspicious and then the conspiracy theory start to fly.
Peter Tertzakian:
Somewhat surprises me that the regulatory approval process leading to the development agreement does not have end of life reclamation in those agreements at a provincial level, like in oil and gas.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah. It surprises a lot of people and there’s actually a lot of people who were under the impression that that is a regulated process, but in fact it’s not. It’s on a contract basis. So, it can vary between the one landowner on one side and the other landowner on the other side of the road.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah. Well, and I think this is an important issue, and I’ve had a number of debates with people on this because they’ll say, “Well, we have contracts with the private landowner and why is it anyone else’s business if we abandon this spot and there’s all these concrete pads?” Which the Premier on our podcast, talked about the fact that one, she had an example where one wind tower concrete pad would cost a million dollars to remove. Isn’t it really the private landowner who now has that on his property that has to live with that? Why does it affect other people in the municipality if someone does sell that to someone who goes bankrupt and now, they can’t meet the obligations of that contract?
Jason Schneider:
Probably the easiest example, it’s like a gas station at the end of your block where there’s too many environmental liabilities so the landowner just stops paying their taxes and then kind of calls the municipality’s bluff of, “Do you go in and clean it up or you let it sit there in a dormant state forever?” And so that’s the conversation that we’re having is ultimately it is the private landowner’s responsibility, but just with the scale of these projects that we’ve seen is private landowner isn’t going to be able to remove 3000 acres worth of screw pilings. So ultimately, are we going to be in a situation 20 years down the road where this is just sitting as a brownfield site, and nobody wants to do anything about it because the cost of reclamation far exceeds the value of the land?
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah, or are those solar panels going to end up in the Vulcan landfill?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, that definitely comes up. You know, what happens in 20, 25 years? And I don’t know, we don’t know. I mean, we might have the recycling down pat in 25 years and this is all for naught, but I think that if you plan for the worst, we’re not going to get stung. And if in the end it’s much easier to claim them, then so be it.
Peter Tertzakian:
So, give us a sense, I mean, around the table with the Vulcan, what would you call them, the alder people or what are they? You’re the reeve.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, the county council.
Peter Tertzakian:
The county council. Give us a sense of the discussion that happens around these issues at that council table.
Jason Schneider:
So, it’s an interesting discussion just because our role in the whole process is pretty limited. The AUC does most of the work. They make their approval and then the municipality gets, we kind of dots the i’s and crosses the t’s when it comes to road use and stuff. So unfortunately, we don’t have a lot of power to influence change. We can submit our concerns to AUC, but ultimately whatever they decide kind of goes and then we’re kind of stuck to pick up the pieces.
And it’s a hard conversation to have with our residents because their kind of expectation is, “Hey, we elected you, you know, you need to take care of this stuff,” when ultimately, it’s really at a provincial level and all we can do is try to advocate on their behalf. But as far as actually forcing any change, we’re pretty limited. So, it is a very frustrating process just because sometimes there’s issues that are outstanding and the AUC doesn’t consider them or doesn’t do anything about it and then we’re the ones that kind of end up having to try to play peacekeeper between the developer and the residents. It kind of makes it an awkward and frustrating discussion. When I go to the grocery store, I sometimes hear about how things got missed and I can’t do a whole lot about it, unfortunately.
Jackie Forrest:
Well, that brings us to the summer announcement about the moratorium. And when the Premier first announced it, she talked about the fact that the municipalities of Alberta supported the pause, but then you had come out after and clarified that. But I get the sense there was a lot of frustration with the process. So maybe talk about that and how you plan to participate in this upcoming inquiry.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, we got mentioned specifically that the rural municipalities had asked for pause and that wasn’t necessarily the case. We’ve been advocating that a few of these outstanding issues, reclamation, land use planning, those types of issues needed to be looked at and updated because this industry has grown at an exponential rate. And when the AUC put in these rules decades ago, they didn’t contemplate that we would be seeing this scale or is seeing some of these issues. So, we’d been advocating for that. And then the messaging we’d heard back from the province was they kind of heard these, they’ve been hearing them from provincial taxpayers, and they wanted to do something, and they felt that putting the pause on would do it. So, I would say we didn’t ask for the pause, but I understand the reasoning why they wanted to put a pause on it so they could take a step back and look at it. So, we support them in the fact that they are trying to fix some of these issues before they become even bigger issues.
Peter Tertzakian:
So, the pause leads to basically a timeout, okay, let’s talk about it. There’s inquiries. There’s one with the Alberta Utilities Commission on the development of wind and solar. So, will you represent the Rural Municipalities of Alberta as it gets into these discussions?
Jason Schneider:
Yes. So, we have been asked to participate and there’s a bit of an application process to how you participate, and we’ve been granted that. So, we’re definitely going to take full advantage of that and make sure that the concerns that our municipalities and the people that live in our areas, I would bring up or make sure that they get heard and ultimately come up with something that works for all parties. We’re by no means trying to stop the industry or anything. That’s complete opposite. We’re just trying to make sure that this is sustainable development and that we’re not just creating a problem down the road.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah, I mean it gets back to that on one side of the county road, there’s someone who’s really pro-development and wants the benefits, the financial benefits on their property and on the other side of the road is someone who really doesn’t want any part of it. And so, you have to balance those concerns at such hearings.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, and it’s difficult. You try to make sure that both sides, that their voice is being heard, but ultimately you find out very quickly if you get into any sort of level of politics or especially municipal politics is unfortunately, sometimes half the room thinks you’re a genius and half the room thinks you’re an idiot.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah. So, would you say that on balance, the organizations you represent, the rural municipalities and even Vulcan County are going into these sorts of hearings on a pro-development stance? Is that the on balance?
Jason Schneider:
Yes. Yeah, that’s definitely the message we’re going is that we want this development to continue, we just want to make sure it’s done properly, and it’s being done in a fashion that we’re not just creating more problems over here.
Jackie Forrest:
It sounds like you’re going to ask for a greater role in this process going forward, but I’d also wonder if you are pro-development, are there ways that we could be developing these projects differently? So, let’s back up a little bit. What are some of the specific issues? We hear about things like weeds, erosion, water runoff, change of view. Can any of these be mitigated if we develop differently in your view?
One idea I had, I also did a road trip to Pincher Creek this summer and there is just a lot of wind turbines everywhere. I wondered would it be better to have certain areas cordoned off for industry and for renewables development and other areas not? Because when you start to get that concentration, I could see the issue for people.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, and we do it with other industries. So, the one that typically always comes up is in the confined feeding operation. So, feedlots, dairies, things of that nature. We are given the tools by the province to actually have areas where we would like to see development and areas where we wouldn’t like to see development just so that we can try to keep those land use conflicts as minimal as possible. So, I think that’s definitely a tool that needs to be explored is to say, this portion of the county, it would be great. This portion, we’re going to try to keep it a little more wide open for other types of developments, whether it’s recreation or whether it’s more agriculture production.
There’s always talk of irrigation expansion in Alberta. And to be able to have areas where we can have it for agriculture and areas where we can have it for energy development, I think would be a very welcome tool.
Peter Tertzakian:
Mm-hmm. Well, I keep coming back to this notion of polarization in the communities and that’s prevalent in any energy discussion where it’s oil, gas, renewables and so on. And the role of information or as is usually the case, misinformation, whether it’s on social media or in other forms. Can you talk about the role of misinformation and spreading of false understandings, I’ll call them, in the community and how that plays out and what you’re doing about it?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, so the role that we’ve really tried to take is I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything. I’m just trying to make sure that they get the proper information, and that’s really the role as a county that we’ve taken. And even as an organization with RMA, it’s the same thing as I’m going to get you all the information and you can make your own decision. And as a local politician, you know what’s going to be a great phone call when the first thing they say is, “I read on Facebook.” And you go, “Oh, great.” Like, this is going to be, “What did you learn on Facebook?”
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah.
Jason Schneider:
And it is, I mean, it’s a very tough thing to manage. And the developers, some are really, really good at doing that and some are really not very good at doing that. And the ones that don’t put a lot of weight into that, making sure that the proper information’s getting out usually are the ones that end up six months later coming and going like, “What can we do now? Everybody’s mad at us, what should we do?” And it’s like, “The time to ask that question was six months ago.” And so a lot of it, yeah, it’s communication, it’s making sure that people are given more information than they need and letting them calm down.
Peter Tertzakian:
I mean, social media is like a mental juggernaut really. I mean, do you feel like you’re able to tackle it head on or are you using social media techniques yourself or how are you playing this out?
Jason Schneider:
It’s a beast. Every municipality, regardless of size, struggles with it. We try to get the information out via social media, but it’s a nonstop losing battle. So we primarily try to, through our website, get things out as well as we do put a lot of emphasis on doing open houses and actually getting people to come in the room and have a conversation and not just Facebook posts and then everybody complaining and going in all sorts of different directions. So that’s kind of how we’ve done it. And I mean, in small town, that open house is probably more valuable than Facebook, in my opinion.
Jackie Forrest:
Well, I want to talk about that because I’ve read into this on social media too. People telling me that when the moratorium came in, I had put out something that said, “Well, it was going to be $4 billion of capital spending in Alberta this year and this sort of thing. It’s one third of the oil sands, so it’s a significant thing.” And all I got back was, “Well, that’s all the government money anyway because it’s all subsidized by the government. So good riddance to that, we don’t need to be spending the government money on those types of projects.”
There’s a debate around is it cheap power? That one isn’t actually pretty hard to decipher. I think there’s good arguments on either side of its cheap power or not. But I want to come back to this because industry associations, industry in general talks about, well, how should we do this? Is it advertising campaigns? Is it kitchen table discussions? Is it people like yourselves? Because someone from the industry that comes to do a town hall, people are pretty skeptical, I imagine, of the guy from Calgary or Toronto with the suit on that comes. So how should this be addressed in general, do you think?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah, it’s a tough one. I think in rural areas, it’s just having the conversations and sometimes they’re long conversations. Usually if the topic’s renewable energy in any shape or form, it’s probably going to be an hour long conversation. And it is just taking the time and doing the due diligence. And that’s really where we’ve seen the most success. You always want to do it as quickly as possible and sometimes that can really bite you. It’s usually, it’s the kitchen table conversations, honestly, it really changes people’s minds.
Jackie Forrest:
By who?
Jason Schneider:
The developer. When you’re sitting at the kitchen table and you’re getting asked the hard questions and you’re willing to answer, that’s usually when you can actually gain an ally as opposed to making somebody be really angry and paint boards and staple them to their fences.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah. So these renewable development projects, particularly in Vulcan County, are really less than a decade old. I mean, it’s just been dramatic, the level of growth. Can you comment on what you’ve learned in the last five, six years, all the way from unexpected impacts that view to almost advice to other rural municipalities that you would give to overcome some of the surprises?
Jason Schneider:
Yeah. So every area is different and it’s acknowledging that every area is different. Falcon County and Athabasca County are extremely different areas, so it’s really relying on some of that local knowledge. There’s people that have lived there for 80 years and have farmed the land. They know it better than your engineer that’s sitting at a desk in Edmonton. And we really try to do that with developers and develop those relationships and really try to help them be successful. Because if they’re successful, then we’re successful. And it’s a tough thing, it’s time-consuming, but really it’s building those relationships and taking advantage of that local knowledge and trying to do the best you can.
Peter Tertzakian:
Yeah. Well, things are different in every region, but the only thing that’s the same is the basic human psychology and the importance of relationships. This is really what you’re saying. And so get to know the people, which seems awfully commonsensical, but sometimes it’s forgotten.
Jason Schneider:
Yeah. And the projects that have been super successful are the ones that have built those relationships and they have people showing up at the hearings to say, “We’re behind these guys. They’re doing good work.” And those are the ones that have been super successful in our area.
Jackie Forrest:
All right, Well, we really appreciate you coming on. One of the reasons we really wanted to have you on is back to that social media. We had some feedback earlier on in some of the work we did that, “You people from the city, you don’t know anything,” right? So hey, we got the voice of the people from the rural municipalities, especially Vulcan one where you’ve already got a lot of projects, it’s already meaningful for your municipality and it could become much bigger if done right.
Jason Schneider:
I appreciate the opportunity to come on and talk about this. It’s definitely been a learning experience and it’s been a wild ride in the last decade.
Peter Tertzakian:
So Jason Schneider, thank you very much. As the Director of Rural Municipalities of Alberta and the Reeve of Vulcan County, it’s been delightful to have you on our podcast at this conference.
Jason Schneider:
Thank you.
Jackie Forrest:
Yeah. Thanks to our live audience today. It’s a huge number, and thanks for coming to the podcast and also thanks to our listeners. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate us on the app that you listen to and tell someone else about us.
Speaker 1:
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